Mind Your Farm Business — Ep. 109: Turning fear into strategy on and off the farm

Foreign. Business on RealAgriculture.com is brought to you by RBC Royal Bank. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mind your Farm Business podcast, brought to you by RBC Royal Bank. And of course, I'm your host, Shaun Haney of Real agriculture dot Com. Today we're tackling something a little different but highly relevant. We're gonna talk about fear, risk and how we respond when the stakes feel high, whether in business or in life. Joining me today is Chris Hardwick. He's an adventurepreneur and leadership coach who blends extreme outdoor experiences with business growth strategies. He's helped entrepreneurs and leaders from boardrooms to backcountry trails push past their limits, build confidence and turn discomfort into. Into clarity. In this episode, we're talking about how fear influences farm decision making, the traps of ego and overconfidence, and how understanding your brain's response to risk can help you make better, more intentional choices. Chris brings both wild storeys and practical wisdom, from boardroom collapses to hanging off cliffs to show us how to navigate big decisions with a clear head and a stronger plan. Let's get to the Mind you'd Farm Business podcast with Chris Hardwick. Hey, Chris. Welcome to the Mind you'd Farm Business podcast. Hey, Shaun, thanks for the opportunity to be here and look forward to having a fun conversation with you. Yeah. So I guess Chris, you know, sort of did my best to tell the audience a little bit about yourself, but I guess indulge us, give us some of your background, because it is absolutely fascinating. Yeah. Well, I call myself an adventurepreneur. And what is that? It's somebody who combines business with adventure. And I love to get my clients outside their comfort zone and off on trips and adventures. And I have been accused of scaring the shit out of a few people in the past, so. But they're all alive, like me, even with all of the crazy things that I've done and they've done. Yeah. I find it's when we get people into a place of discomfort, that's typically where growth takes place. Why is that? Well, when we fail and we make mistakes, we often learn a lot about ourselves and what we're capable of. And generally, we're capable of so much more than what we give ourselves credit for. So the thing that I like to do is create these moments with intentionality as opposed to just letting them happen. So we put some strategy around how to create these incredible learning opportunities for people. Does the person, though, have to be open to that learning? Do you sometimes take People up on the side of a mountain and you're going through your programme, we're learning, and they're just like, yeah, yeah. No. Well, you know, that's the thing. Right. It all has to do with our perception around fear and the fact that it's all wired into our DNA to behave a certain way. It's what's kept. Kept Homo sapiens alive for thousands, if not millions of years, dependent upon your religious beliefs. But the reality is that in today's world, it's a very different world to the world that we were designed to live in as Homo sapiens. And there's a lot of fear going on in our heads that is just not applicable. And so we need to learn what's happening inside our own brains and our bodies and get people into a state of mind where they go, actually, yeah, this is not going to kill me and I'm going to probably learn something. So there's a little bit of a conversation that needs to take place. Yeah. And when you think about the trajectory of your. Whether it's your farm, business or any industry, fear can be. It can be a motivator at times. It can also be. It can really be a debilitator too, where people get frozen because of the fear of the variables that are in front of them. Yeah. Talk about that a little bit and how we respond to it. Well, I love what you said about being frozen, because that's just one of the three things that will happen to us. I mean, most people have heard of the flight or. Or fight response, but there's three. It's the flight, fight or freeze response. Right. And invariably when something happens that scares us, we react and we really lose control of what's going on. And we get, you know, we get flight, fight, freeze. We want to get into a fight with somebody, we want to run away from it, or we get frozen with fear. And when people get in touch with their own, I guess, bodies and their brains and they understand how we operate and how we function as humans, we can be more in touch with that. We can identify that early on and catch ourselves and say, well, hang on a sec, what's going on here? Why am I having this reaction? And we can start to unpack that and learn a little bit about what's going on. And I like to coach people on that. And it really doesn't matter where you're at, what industry you're at, you know, whether you're even working, whether you're a business owner, a farmer, it really makes no difference. This is about understanding how we function and operate as humans. So it's important to know this because then we can start to understand and control it and get ahead of it and remove fear from the equation. And sometimes that can, as you say, it can prevent us from doing things. And even when we learn about that. Yeah, yeah. Even when we're aware of it though, like, you know, you, you've shared a storey with me in terms of, you know, you're very aware of fear and, and how the, the brain functions. But even you yourself have experienced fear in your, you know, recreational life on the side of a mountain or, or in your business background. Yeah. And it's a good thing. Like it's here to keep us safe, it's here to keep us alive. But not everything's going to kill us today. You know, there's not many sabre toothed tigers running around. Well, there's a few grizzly bears here in B.C. where I am. But you know, generally speaking we're not going to die walking out on the farm and jumping into the plough. Right? We're going to get the job done. And so yeah, I think we can recognise that some of these fears are real and some of them are just perceived, but they can be limitations in terms of our ability to get shit done. They can be barriers to growth and success and they can hold us back from, from achieving our true potential. So that's the conversation that I like to have with people. So how do I make sure if I am experiencing fear, how do I make sure I turn it around and use it as an asset, as a, you know, it's, you know, sort of embrace it to have a creative positive, you know, create a positive outcome. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's really good to go back in time and think back to some times when maybe you were scared or afraid or fearful. And often starting with a very early memory can be a good way. You know, when we were a 8 or a 10 year old boy or girl and something happened and you know, think back to those earliest memories and think back to what happened and how did it make you feel. And for a lot of people, you know, whether it's afraid of heights or whatever, it might be afraid of spiders or snakes, you know, I come from Australia. There's a lot of them. Think about what it is that you're afraid of and how you reacted and responded. And chances are for a lot of people those early fears remain with them throughout their adult life. And also think back to how and where these fears came from. I Mean, how many of us are told, well, don't do that, Johnny, don't do that, Jill. Like you might get hurt or you might like. So we get bombarded with this societal, I don't know, brainwashing almost as we're growing up. And if it's not our parents, it's our caregivers, or it might be our teachers at school, or it might be our career counsellors, like we're always being told what we can and cannot do. And I just love going back to when we first learned to walk. Like Nobody watched a YouTube video, nobody went on social media. Like we had a deep seated need as bipeds to learn how to walk. And we got up and we fell over and we got up and we fell over and we hurt ourselves. But we kept getting up until we could walk and soon after we were walking, we were running, right? And it's the same thing with riding a bike. We fell off the bike, we got up, we kept going. So when we look back at our early lives, sometimes these memories that we have at times when we were scared or fearful are things that stick with us through our lives and they become limitations, self imposed, sometimes limitations on what our true potential is. So I like to go down that sort of rabbit hole with people and unpack their fears and learn how to overcome them so that we can realise our full potential. And there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of. There's a wide pendulum here, right? Oh yeah. And any business owner is going to fit somewhere different on it. And you think about the extremes and it can be dangerous to be that person that has no fears, right? Oh, that, you know, he has no fear. He's all in, all the time, you know, all the chips on the table. As a business person, that can be incredibly rewarding, but it also can be incredibly dangerous from an investment and business perspective. Yeah, it can be a total, absolute, complete disaster. I know, I've been there. Do you feel you were like that a little bit at times? We all have different risk thresholds and we all have a different relationship with fear and risk taking. And we do need to understand what the foundation of this is and where these beliefs come from and why we are wired the way we are. Because within that soul search and going back in time, that's a good conversation to have with ourselves around, how did I get here? Why am I risk averse or why am I not risk averse? And, and you know, the whole bet the farm scenario is a real thing for your Listeners, Right. We do not want to be betting the farm on something. One of the interesting issues that we have to face in life is the fear of loss. You know, when we have nothing, we've got nothing to lose. When we have a lot, we've got a lot to lose. You know, maybe we've purchased some new equipment, maybe we inherited the family farm, maybe we bought the farm, whatever it might be. So we need to look at the risk reward scenario. We do not want to be betting the farm on, you know, some new investment or maybe expanding our acreage or leasing some land or these commitments without going through a bit of a risk management process. And one of the things I shared with you and your group of business owners was around identifying what those opportunities might look like and going through a process of actually doing a risk assessment process to determine whether or not that's a good risk to take or not. What is the potential upside, what is the potential downside? You know, what's the worst case, the best case, what's the base case? And so I like to work with my clients on assessing and evaluating the risks associated with these opportunities and walking them through a process of determining whether or not that's a sensible risk to take, whether that is something that we are able to reduce and mitigate and potentially even eliminate the risk so that it's a no brainer, we need to do this. And the upside potential far outweighs the downside potential. Or maybe we arrive at a point where, no, that's just dumb, that's just crazy. That's kind of a bet the farm type of decision. And we don't want to go down that path. So I like to put some process around this so that it's not, you know, oh, yeah, the wind's blowing that way. It looks good, let's go for it. Right? Yeah. Well, and how, when you're going through that process, I think it's really important more people need to do it. Like, we asked Canadian farmers about risk in 2025 versus 24, and 68% of them across the country said this year's more riskier than last year. Okay. Now if you take it a step further, okay, so what are you gonna do about that? What, what does that mean to you? What does it mean for your business decisions? And a lot of times I think it's, you know, the identification is more risky, but then there's that lack of that process to be like, okay, I'm doing something about it, or, you know, how do I respond to that? Yeah, as A part of that process. Should you also include, okay, if we, if we do make this decision, we do this whether it's it works out or it doesn't, how does it impact other stakeholders? Maybe it's, it's a business partner, maybe it's the family unit, maybe it's your employees. And do you need to acknowledge their, depending on which stakeholder is their relationship with, with risk and their tolerance there of it? I don't know if it's a matter of assessing their particular risk or risk tolerance. I think it's more around what are the consequences. And I go back to one of my experiences as an aggressive business owner buying multiple businesses. You know, I bought five companies over a two and a half year period. We were scaling at 10 times our sustainable growth rate. It was, some would argue, irresponsible growth. I was driven towards building a group of companies from 0 to 100 million in five years and selling it for $100 million. And everything was just going along swimmingly. Well, we were making lots of money, we were doing very well. We were one of the fastest growing companies in Canada. And then the banks decided to call our loans because we had an erp, an accounting system roll out that didn't go the way it was supposed to. And all of a sudden we couldn't report. We were offside in our covenants with the banks and they called in our loans. Some might argue that was perfectly predictable. Some might argue that we were unlucky, although we tend to manifest our own luck. The reality was in that particular situation, we did something that we were ignorant of. You know, there was something that you need to do when you're rolling out new accounting systems. Quite simply, you need to double track your accounting systems. And that was something that we just weren't aware of. And the advisors we got didn't tell us this. And so we just got into hot water. Now, you know, having learned that experience the hard way, I'm able to advise my clients on, you know, the appropriate way to move forward. So how do we take big, hairy, audacious goals and steps and leaps without having these catastrophic events? And that really comes down to who we get in our advice from, who are we speaking to, who are we surrounding ourselves with so that we can pick up on other people's lessons and other people's mistakes so we don't have to make them ourselves. So, you know, there's some ideas and thoughts around how some of your listeners can maybe learn from others and not be thinking they've got to do it all on their own. You know, they're not the first person to do this. Somebody else has probably done it before. Did it work? You know, did that piece of equipment do what it was supposed to do? Did that particular crop yield the results that they were looking for? Like, it's a matter of identifying the opportunities and doing a certain amount of due diligence to determine whether or not that's a good decision prior to just taking a leap. We'll get back to the mind you'd farm business podcast shortly. But first, a word from our sponsor, RBC Royal Bank. This episode of the mind you'd find business podcast is brought to you by rbc. Your idea of preparing for the unthinkable happens here. No one knows what tomorrow will bring, but with RBC and their team of experts by your side, you can plan for the unexpected. From market risks to exploring new tech to weather challenges, they'll help you get the peace of mind you've been looking for. Visit rbc.comagriculture to learn more. Do you find people that you work with business owners? Do you find that their relationship with fear and risk is consistent across challenges? Like, you know, an example, somebody that is like, all in high tones for, for risk in the, in the business world, they get on the side of a mountain on a ledge and they're like frozen the first minute you're, you know, 30ft off the ground. Can, can you be depending on the, the environment, can your, your relationship with fear and risk change? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think everybody's are scared of heights. I mean, I was just on the side of a mountain on Tuesday night two days ago. I'd never climbed this cliff before. I'd looked at it from the gondola many times up Grouse Mountain. And here I was climbing up the side of this free climb in this cliff. And I'm sure people that saw me were probably thinking, who's this idiot? But it was well within my capability and it was fine and it was comfortable. And even though I'd never been up there before, I was going up with a friend who I trusted and it was fine, right? But I think that it comes from experience. Like if we, you know, I hadn't been climbing for quite a while, so I was a little, you know, it was a little scary. But when you do something more regularly, you become more comfortable with it. And so you can apply that to any aspect of risk in your life. You know, when I did my first acquisition, that was a little scary. But when I did my seventh acquisition, that was like, yeah, I know what to do now, right. So we get experience by doing things. Maybe it's going out and leasing that first big combine harvester, right? You know, wow, this is a big decision. This lease is huge. It's going to cost me X amount of dollars. Right? Like, but if I crunch the numbers on it and I speak to others who use that same unit and they've had the production that they're looking for in a similar type of product or farming that they're doing, it becomes, yeah, this is a no brainer. I just need to go for it so we can discuss things with other people, we can experiment, we can start small and get bigger. You know, there's lots of different ways we can approach it, but I do think it's around practise. We practise, we make new synapse connections in our brains when we learn to do new things. That's why I like to take people climbing, is because it accelerates the process and it allows people to become more comfortable with the process of risk management. I just want to come back. Shaun, there was something you asked me in your previous question about the implications associated with losing the farm or. And the impact that might have to, you know, suppliers and customers, employees and family members and stuff like that. When I went through this situation where the banks called out loans, one of the things that I was most concerned about was we had 380 employees at the time and we had a situation where we could have basically walked away and a lot of people would have lost their jobs and we would have had a lot of creditors lose money. And, you know, because the banks were effectively just trying to squash us. But we didn't because these were people that we had personal relationships with over the four years that we'd been building the company. So we were very careful to make sure that we found a third party investor to come in and inject the operating capital into the business. So we didn't default on any contracts, we didn't default on any supplier agreements, we paid out everybody and nobody lost their jobs. And that company went on to be a very successful company. It's just that I was no longer at the helm. So I think that when we make decisions that impact other people, we have a responsibility as a business owner to think about the consequences of our actions. And at the end of the day, a business is just a business. It is a vehicle, it is not necessarily our lives. Now, that might be very different for your listeners because the connection to the land and the family and Everything you, You know, is very different than a transportable business that might be providing a service or a product or something like that. I think that a farm, just by the very nature of the fact that involves land and people and family, you know, that's a very different world. You've just introduced, though, another variable here that has a huge impact. So we've got fear and we've got risk, but you just introduced ego as well into this mix. Yeah, that can also. I. I think of the negative implications, but I. I'm sure there are positive implications here, too, but it is definitely a factor. Oh, I mean, when I. I had the, you know, what kicked out of me when that happened. Right. Because this was a pretty expensive education. I mean, one minute I'm worth gazillions, and the next minute I'm worth zero. I mean, it's all on paper anyway. It's not like you can eat it, spend it. Right. You know, because everything we were making was getting pumped straight back into the business to continue to grow the company. Right. But I think that ego gets in the way for a lot of business owners. And that was something that, you know, crushed me, all right. As a successful entrepreneur. But it's those moments in life where we discover what we're actually truly made of and our ability to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves on and move on and accept the fact that, hey, this happened due to ignorance. This happened. It was just a mistake. There was some factors that were at play at the time that we weren't aware of, you know, and it was a great lesson, and it has allowed me to go from the point of having a really big ego to basically squashing a lot of that ego. And now, you know, and I think that's a process that sometimes, you know, all of us need to go through, some of us more so than others. Yeah, yeah. Well. And like, I think about some of the coaching you do and the. In the, you know, the metaphorical experience of. Of being on the side of a mountain and. And then you superimpose that variable of ego. Boy, it. You know, if you've never been through that experience you had, you know, you. You've never really climbed before. You've never been that high. You've never been that short of a ledge. How far do we have to walk here? How far can I fall here? Boy, it would shed that ego so fast. I was hanging off the side of that mountain just two days ago with a friend of mine that I trust. We had broken off from the main group. There was about 14 of us. And they were going to go up a trail that I'd been up once before in my life, and there was no way I was going to go up that again because I haven't been doing a lot of climbing this past year. So he said, well, let's go up a different way. That's not quite as risky. And it was still quite exposed, but the climbing itself was easier. But I had to trust in him. I had to trust that he knew my ability. I knew that he'd been up this route many times before. And he said to me, chris, you'll be fine. I'm comfortable with where you're at. I trusted in him and I followed him up and we got to some tricky sections. He described what we were going to be encountering. I was prepared for it and we moved through it. And yeah, so I think having a guide in our lives, whether it's in the form of an advisor, a mentor, a coach, a consultant, you know, I don't like the word consultant, but, you know, just for your listeners to clarify, because we sometimes get confused in these terms. A consultant is somebody you pay to tell you what to do. They don't have any vested interest in you or your business. A mentor is somebody who is someone often older, not always, but more experienced than you. They've been there before. They can share with you their knowledge and experience, what worked, what didn't work. A coach is somebody who puts their arm around you and comes along on the journey with you. They. They're not there to tell you what to do. They're not there to tell you what they've done. They're there to ask you powerful questions. And they're there to support you, encourage you and hold you accountable. And so I don't think it really matters what you do and what line of business you're in, but I do think it's very important to have someone around you or in your circle that's in an advisory mentor type role, someone who's been there before, so they've got some insight and understanding in terms of what is coming. And the coach is somebody who's going to ask you powerful questions. And what is a powerful question? It's a question that you don't even necessarily understand the question, let alone the answer you don't know. And that's somebody who can identify your blind spots and then ask you questions like, well, what do you think you should do? As opposed to telling you what they've done or what they think you should do? What do you think you should do, Shaun? Yeah, big difference. So if you go on that climb with those group of 14 and you don't have that trusted friend with you that you divided off in the main group and you were solo. Well, I just turn around and go back. Yeah, you just go back? Yeah, I turn around and go back and I go up a trail. I mean, we're talking Grouse Mountain here in Vancouver, where I live, there's about 20 different routes up that mountain, and two thirds of them are legal. Right, I see. And, you know, there's lots of other options that are safer, that are legal, and they're more than enough of a good hike and workout, which is why you're doing it. It's just that there's other areas that are a little more exciting and a little bit more challenging and more difficult to get to. But without that trusted companion, that mentor with you, you do take a different path. And if you overlay that in a business context, maybe not, you know, it's the less risky path, but maybe not the appropriate path given the business trajectory and, you know, in the situation. So, you know, some, sometimes, especially in agriculture, where there's kind of a, you know, there's. You're, you're solo, you're very independent kind of business at times that, that if you, you approach some of the decision making that way, you may be making a decision you think is right, but in the bigger picture, it might not be. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's trial by fire, right? That's. That's the school of hard knocks. That's the university that I spent most of my time at. And, and it works. It's actually very effective because one of the things about screwing up and making a bad decision is it's a really good way of learning. You never forget it because often it's an expensive mistake, but it's not necessary. It is the way a lot of people choose to learn. And it's unfortunate because it can sometimes be expensive, both in terms of potential relationships, in terms of financial losses, in terms of impact to other people and clients and what have you. So I don't know if I would sit here and say it's the best way to go. It's the way that I've gone in a lot of areas of my life because of the ego I had and because of the ignorance that I had and because of the lack of understanding knowledge of the process. But today I can sit here a little grayer or in this case, a lot less hair and, you know, A few broken bones and scarred bank accounts to show for it over the years and apply that knowledge and wisdom into helping others so they don't have to go through the painful hurt and suffering that I've been through. Yeah. A lot of times in goal setting people will say, well, you need to write your goals down. Do we need to write our fears down and the wrists down? Well, the. I like to start with let's, let's figure out what the vision is for your life first. Right. Where do we want to, what's the trajectory that we have? Maybe 10 years out is a good time frame. Let's kind of, I have this little exercise. I get my clients to draw a picture of what you want your life to look like in 10 years time. And at 10 years is a good timeframe because the reality is we could actually do anything in 10 years, whatever that might look like for you. And then I like to work backwards, thinking about, from a goal setting perspective, if that's where I want to be. You know, what are we June 2025? I'm going to date stamp this conversation. Where do I want to be in June 2035? What would I like my life to look like? Oh, I'm going to have grandchildren, I'm going to be married, I'm going to have my first farm, whatever it is. Right. Well, if that's where I'd like to be in 10 years time, where am I going to? Where do I need to be in nine years time, eight years time? And then I work backwards and get to the point of saying, okay, well, what do I need to do this year in the coming year if that's where I want to get to in 10 years time? And so that's a good simple process of figuring out if that's where I want to get to in 10 years time, what do I need to be doing in the next year to be getting myself on the right trajectory to whatever that vision for my life might look like in the future? Because Rome wasn't built in a day, you know, and our businesses and our farms aren't going to get to where we want them to get to in the next day or the next year. It's going to take time, it's going to take investment, it's going to take education, it's going to take growth and learning and surrounding ourselves with the right people and building the right systems and processes and having access to capital and all of this stuff takes time. But if we've got an understanding of what our trajectory looks like, and where we're headed, then we can work backwards and start putting some of these pieces in place to set us up for success. Yeah. Process, process, process. Less focus on the outcome. Understand the outcome, but more focus on the process. Revisit the outcome on a regular basis. I encourage people to put that, you know, painted picture up on their wall and update it every year. Just like I encourage people to put together a one page plan for the next year, put it up on the wall and keep an eye on it and cheque in regularly and see how they're doing. But if there's a course correction that needs to be made, then make the course correction. Hey, Chris. Has been fascinating. If somebody wants to hang off the side of a mountain with you and look at some of your coaching programme that you do, how do they find you? Probably there's a few different ways. My website, chrishardwickinc.com C H R I S H A R D W I C k I n c.com book a call. Happy to chat with you. Meet and learn about what you're up to. You can also go to my Google link. Chris Hardwick, leadership. You can read some reviews for some happy past and current customers and clients. I'm all over LinkedIn. Chris Hardwick. Not the comedian, the leader ship guy and the adventurepreneur. So yeah, or you can give me a phone call. 778-836. 8226. That's 778-8268. What am I saying? That's funny. 778-836-8226. Give me a call or. Yeah, so multiple ways. Probably the website's the best. You can cheque me out a little bit, look at some of my programmes and I would love to meet you and have a conversation and learn about your farm and your family and what sort of goal and vision you have for your life. Great stuff. Well, farmers love adventure, so I'd love to see people take you up on it. Chris, thanks so much for joining us here today. Thanks so much. Alrighty. Thank you, Shaun. That's a wrap on another episode of the Mind you'd Farm Business podcast. A huge thank you to Chris Hardwick for sharing his unique perspective on leadership, fear and risk in business and also in life. Whether it's buying land, expanding the operation or managing through uncertainty, how we respond to risk is often more important than the actual risk itself. Chris reminded us that fear is wired into us for survival. But in today's world, it can also be a barrier to progress. If we let it go totally unexamined. Through intentional reflection, mentorship, and even just slowing down to ask ourselves better questions, we can move forward with more clarity and just more importantly, just no regret. For more episodes of Mind you'd Foreign Business podcast, head to mindyourfarmbusiness.com and a big thank you to RBC Royal bank for supporting this series. If you got feedback, we want to hear it. Share your storey, your thoughts, your questions by sending me an email shaneeyeal agriculture.com or you can call 855-776-6147. Again, thanks for listening to Mind your Farm Business podcast. And in the meantime, keep on minding your farm business.